smiley. tonight we pay tribute to the life and legacy of nick ashford. in 2009, offered and his wife valerie simpson joined us here on this -- ashford and his wife valerie simpson joined us here on the stage. he is known for his hit including "in snow mountain high enough here " we are glad you joined us for the conversation with nick ashford. >> every community has a martin luther king boulevard. it's the cornerstone we all know. it's not just a street or boulevard, but a place where wal-mart stands together with

your community to make every day better. >> nationwide insurance supports tavis smiley. with every question and answer, help tavis improve financial literacy and remove obstacles to economic empowerment one conversation at a time. nationwide is on your side. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television] [captioning made possible by kcet public television] tavis: along with his wife valerie simpson, nick ashford and some of the biggest hits in motown history. -- wrote some of the biggest hits in motown history. he joined us for a terrific conversation about their life together and remarkable career in the music business.

i was telling you how honored i was just to see you all in los angeles. >> i keep waiting for you to call. >> all you have to do was call. it was good to look out there and see your face. >> i stay at the same hotel in new york most of the time, and it is so weird because every time i checked in i look to see who is playing. i miss about one day here. they are coming in tomorrow. it is amazing to see you still doing this after all these years. i get the sense you still love this as much as you always did. >> it is true. it is so exciting. you feel the love coming at you. you cannot buy that. >> it is kind of different the love you get at a smaller clubs

and on a big presidiums stage. i like both of them, but i am in love with a smaller one. tavis: what i like as a consumer is that -- techniques sweat was on me that night. sweat was on me that night. i can see why we the audience loved it. we get the chance to be so close to you. what do you like? >> i like the fact that something different happens every night. the response is different. it causes the audience to act different. they start talking back to you, and i like that. >> on a big stage you can go back summer and white off the sweat and be fresh again -- wipe off the sweat and be fresh again. they are looking you in the eye.

you feel their souls. tavis: this is an impossible question i am going to ask you. what is it you all tap into when you start writing this? i asked because there are a lot of songwriters. there're all kinds of songwriters, many of whom never get a song published, never gets star, and never get the chance. duo? was it about this the eur the you know what it is after all these years? >> i think it is the spirit, the passion. i do not think we right in a thing that we do not smile at the end and say, that feels good. i see the audience thinks of it as the same way.

>> when it came up with the idea, it was coming from such a real place, because he was walking down central park west. >> the buildings were so talk, and i was so hungry. i had no friends, and i said, there is no mountain high enough. it came out of my mouth. >> that is a real place it came from. now people use it. >> i have heard all the stuff you do. it occurred to me when i was looking at the back of this cd that you are in love with the word ain't. enough? that good tavis: is that true? >> i have to check myself.

i am good at english. >> i have never seen people make so much money off bad english. you liked the sound of it? >> i love the sound of that word. i ain't going to do it. >> just remember, he does the words. [captioning made possible by kcet public television] tavis: terry gordy was on here. he does great interviews, and he came on this show, and the conversation got so rich, and what was supposed to be one appearance turned into two nights. at the end of the first show, we had not even gotten into the music, so i had to ask him to stay another night.

people love it. it is the fifth anniversary of motown. i asked him that night, because i have heard you talking about it to meet so many times, and i wanted to hear his take on it. do you recall the first time a pitch to those songs? he said, do i ever. he told the story. i am going to let you tell it again. tell me about the first-time you went to hit seville. now >> the first time we went in, we were both so nervous. he said, i know you wrote the song. tavis: before you go forward, i do not want to leave this out. he was referring to a song ."lled "let's go get stoned

>> he said, we got classy acts. we did not have the song of the time. then we knocked ourselves out. i tell the story all the time. we locked ourselves in a room and stayed in the room. we came out, and that is when we bought a ticket back to detroit, to see mr. gordy. >> i wish i had a piano. >> he said, he is busy, and i said, he is not. we walked into the office, and she just sat up and at the piano, and i said, i think we have what you are looking for,

and i hear this. "ain't nothing like the real thing baby." mr. gordy was sitting there like -- but it just went on. >> we never lived in detroit. we would always fly in, so we were the kids from new york to them. >> i remember the best thing carmen and now weill was with me on that trip. -- i remember that val was with me on that trip. it needs a little more work. then our song came up.

then they played the song, and after they played the song, barry said, i do not think we need to release this. i think we are just going to send it out. that made my day. i will never forget that one. >> i want to start with marvin. tell me about them and why that and to own region -- why that duo were so well-matched to what you wrote. >> they have such an incredible blend, and marvin is a true artist. he can work with another artist to change his tone and make it

better. that is what you call a true artist. valerie will not do that for me. i say i need help, and she will let me struggle. >> just tell the truth. >> the two of them together, that was like ice cream and cookies, just a good blend. tavis: diana and the supremes and -- and what made that work? >> we got a chance to write a solo album. her version of "aides know mountain high enough not" related -- ain't no mountain high enough"really stood out. >> we did not have any long songs. >> 3 minutes.

>> we wanted to get something like that, so i said, let me write some of these. put a little grandeur to it, make it really sexy, and she really did it. >> very did not hear that. -- barry did not hear that. >> he did not tell you the truth? the truth is when we produce that album, we took it into mr. gordy. he said, i really liked the way you did it, but i want you to take a big part at the end and put it right out on front. i said, i do not think that will work. he said, that is the way i want you to do it. we will think about it. we went away a couple days and came back. we said, we do not think that

works, because this song has an orgasm to it. it builds. he said, if you are not going to do it the way i wanted it to. he said it will not be released. valerie and i stuck to our guns and said, we are going to keep it that way, and after they released the album, the deejays all over the country started playing it in spite of his thoughts, and we used to walk down the corridor at motown. >> we never brought it up. tavis: you just kept walking down the hallway. >> just kept walking. we never brought it up.

>> i think he is going to know about is now. now to his credit, it goes to show you, and i celebrate you all, when you stand in your truth, when you know what is right, and you have got to hold onto the. he was very honest and admitted he was wrong about that. he thought it was the wrong song. marvin was his smooth lover man. why are you going to sing a protest song called "what is going on?" it was one of the best songs ever written, so he is fallible like that. when you are putting together a show, as the venue change?

>> it has a lot to do with who we are performing for and whether they love you already. if we are lucky enough to be the headliner, you know they love you. if you are opening for somebody, you want to put something that will get recognition so they know you through your business and not -- 3 your music. people think of us as songwriters that saying, they start saying, i did not know they wrote that. that really helps us out with new audiences. >> you have to be ready to change on the spot. if we feel the wrong love from the audience, you have to turn it around and change it

immediately. you have to be ready to change it immediately, because there are certain kinds of people who like different kinds of songs. some people want to dance when they come out. some people want to be intimate with you. >> i remember we were in europe, and the audience was so quiet we thought, we are dying. we kept changing. we did on core. we put that in early. by the end of the show, the audience stood up screaming. they loved us, but we saw nothing. they did not give us a response. then when it was over, they stopped. we did not get no love. >> we had no on cornencore. tavis: i grew up in a

pentecostal church, so i am usually that kind of energy. i was exposed soon prince, so i am used for everyday use to that energy. i remember i went to a beethoven concert, and i love the music. i want to stand up and clap, and they are alike, sit down. at the end, when the whole thing is over, and the whole audience stands up. they will applaud for 20 minutes at the end. live folk are not like that. we got to get down right now. >> we need that to keep working. we are better when we know you love us. >> i want to yell and scream. you said something a moment ago i want to go back and hit.

you end nick c. tether as songwriters who sing and not singers -- sees other a songwriters who sing and not singers to write songs. >> we started as valerie and snake. -- and nick. we realized singing was secondary, and we became songwriters. the dream was to have someone wonderful like diana ross interpret it and take it all the way up there, so that is what happened. tavis: how these subjects your eager to reality -- how do you subject york ego to reality?

i know that they can do this. >> i think in those days we did not have those feelings. we just wanted to write and do our songs. people have asked us, why did you keep that to yourself. >> also because they were a duet, it was like we were in a groove, and once you get in that proves, -- in the grooves that was our job. >> i was not prepared. it took me five years. i with sweat so much, and i would be driving. now i would get in front of the microphone, and i do not know what made that happen.

it took five years. >> i know this story, but since we have been together so long, you got together house? >> we met in church. we went to get a meal, and i remember i saw valerie's sitting with three girls, and she was cute, but i was so hungry are really could not deal with it. i could not wait for service to be over common sir arthur service -- service to be over, after serving as we talked. >> we did not know his back story. we did find out he wrote new gospel songs, and because i've played the piano and he wrote

up rightd we hopoked away. >> we used to be valerie and nick. ladies are generally furs. the reason her name is after -- i was so quiet. she would be at the piano and kill it. they would swoop her away like she did everything. i would be like carmine and now am i invited nemours -- i would be like, am i invited? that would happen more and more. i said, you know what we could do? put my name first, and if it is ashford and simpson, they will know i had to have something to do with it. brother said, put my name furs,

man. tavis: on my first flight to l.a., long before tv, long before tom bradley, my first flight to l.a., i was flying from indiana all the way to l.a. and new -- i am on the airplane, and there is a woman in front of me who got downright and drugs, and she stood up in the seat at 38,000 square feet and insisted on performing for the entire airplane. she took off her top. >> she is sick. tavis: they had to shut that thing down. that is how i got introduced to that song. you tweak it a little bit. now it is a "solid as the rock."

>> it started here. we were doing a concert, and during the song, i put the microphone of to the audience, and expecting them to say, solid as a rock, and you have 3000 people saying it. >> when we went back to new york, the guy from "the new york times" road about 6, and saturday night live thicket of -- wrote about it, and saturday night live skit it up. -- takes it up. it is now on itunes. it can be your ring tone. >> when you buy the cd and could it -- put it on your computer, you can also have it. >> i appreciate more than

anything else not just your gift of your humanity, that what makes your lyrical content stand out is the humanity. it is a beautiful thing. nick and val or ashford & simpson. when nick ashford passed away, barry gordy said, i will remember him for the wonderful songs he left us with. i will be celebrating his life forever. whether you knew him personally, or were just touched by his music, his life and legacy will live on. good night from los angeles, and as always, keep the faith.

>> ♪ make this world a better place ♪ until then end ♪ ♪ reach out and touch somebody's hand ♪ place this world a better ♪ to give encouragement ♪ >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time for a consersation with the former mayor, kwame kilpatrick plus "sex and the city"star kristin davis.

we will see you then. >> every community has a martin luther king boulevard. it's the cornerstone we all know. it's not just a street or boulevard, but a place where wal-mart stands together with your community to make every day better. >> nationwide insurance supports tavis smiley. with every question and answer, help tavis improve financial literacy and remove obstacles to economic empowerment one conversation at a time. nationwide is on your side. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television] [captioning made possible by kcet public television]